🎙️ Business Transformation Podcast – Episode #43

🎧 Ron Leeman on People Science, Digital Change, and Why 70% Failure Rates Are a Myth | Business Transformation Podcast [043]

In this episode of the Business Transformation Podcast, Heath Gascoigne speaks with change management legend Ron Leeman—a true practitioner whose global career spans decades, industries, and borders. Ron shares real-world stories of transformation, why “fluffy” change fails, and how organizations can stop fixating on frameworks and start focusing on people.

💡 What you'll learn in this episode:

• Why industry-specific experience is overrated in change management
• How "People Science" reframes the people side of change
• The fallacy of the 70% failure rate and the need for better metrics
• Ron’s Practical Framework Approach to Change
• What most certifications get wrong about change—and what to do instead
• Change leadership across Asia, UK, and global projects

Whether you’re a consultant, executive, or just transformation-curious, this is the no-holds-barred episode you didn’t know you needed.

• “It’s not about following a methodology. It’s about understanding what works—and adapting to the organization in front of you.” – Ron Leeman

• “All change is people-driven. That’s why I stopped calling it ‘the people side of change’ and started calling it People Science.” – Ron Leeman

🎧 Listen Now: Transformation Is Not an IT Project – It’s Strategic Business Design ➡️ Listen on Spotify / Apple Podcasts

👤 About the Guest: Ron Leeman is a globally recognized Change Management practitioner with over 40 years of hands-on experience driving transformation across 25+ industries and multiple continents. Based in Thailand since 2011, Ron has delivered strategic change programs throughout Europe, Asia, and the Americas. From government to pharma, heavy industry to financial services, his trademark approach blends pragmatism, candor, and an unwavering focus on people—what he calls ‘People Science’.

👨‍💼 About the Host: Heath Gascoigne is a global transformation advisor, author of the international best-seller The Business Transformation Playbook, and founder of HOBA TECH. With more than 20 years of experience working across the UK government, FTSE 100 firms, and disruptive startups, Heath created the HOBA® (House of Business Architecture) framework to fix the 70%+ failure rate of business transformations.

🎙️ About the Podcast: The Business Transformation Podcast brings together the world’s top transformation experts—from practitioners to thought leaders—for real, unfiltered conversations about what it really takes to deliver change that lasts.